Perfection vs. Progress

SUPERPHANTAZM Says:

Apr 9, 2010 - Thanks. Lust seems to be my weakness. I hate it because it is pretty vile and equates a would be saint with the run-of-the mill scum.

destine4hope Says:

May 6, 2010 - Then did Jesus not really mean what He said in Matthew 5:48 when He said, "Therefore, you are to be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect."?The word "Perfect" used here does not mean flawless. It means complete or mature; whole.In light of that, how can a Christian claim that no one can be complete or mature in Christ?That goes directly against Christ's command to be "perfect".Is He not powerful enough to completely transform us?Again, is HE not powerful enough, not are we not...?

destine4hope Says:

May 6, 2010 - He hasn't even read Wesley, apparently. He never says that "you never have to repent and learn and grow" when you are made perfect. He says quite the contrary. Being as Christ calls you to be ("perfect" - complete) is not synonymous with "you know everything about God, and He has revealed everything He has the capacity to reveal." We are still limited."Just like an athlete wants to hit every shot" Yeah, he definitely doesn't understand the Biblical definition of perfection.

destine4hope Says:

May 6, 2010 - The rest of Verse 12 of Philippians 3 says "I press on so that I may 'lay hold' of that for for which also I was laid hold of by Christ""Lay hold" seems to imply a possibility of becoming "perfect"Verse 15 says "Let us therefore, 'as many as are perfect' have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude God will reveal that also to you""As many as ARE perfect" seems to be talking about people who are among them that have the attitude of "pressing onward toward the goal"

opendtuning Says:

May 7, 2011 - "Paul wrote the bible" "That's huge really" "You will want that on your resame" "What he has accomplished"  now Mark Driscoll's guardian Angel is as nervous as can be.

promisedgrace Says:

May 9, 2011 - This is terrible. God's grace by faith is all we need in "justification" and "glorification" but somehow we have to work hard by our effort to be "sanctified"...no wonder people are leaving the church because of this false doctrine. Salvation is by faith through grace too...

GodLovesUs100 Says:

Jul 28, 2011 - Well keep in mind we are told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.That does not mean we can save ourselves, I agree it's all by God's grace and we could do nothing without him.But once we are born-again, we don't just sit back and kick up our feet, waiting for God to mature us.We must discipline ourselves, battle with the flesh, overcome the devil and the world, and keep our eyes on him.Meanwhile his grace enables us to do all these things :)

TheNatureBoyWooooo Says:

Sep 20, 2011 - I would like to disagree that sanctification is "exhausting". Through human effort it is exhausting. I am being made aware of my sin more and more every day. And the more I am aware of my sin the more I am aware I cannot stop it. In that I realize that God must do it for me throught the work of the Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit. It wasn't difficult for Gideon to win the battle. God stacked the odds so much against him, that he couldn't win. It had to be God and not Gideon's that won.

patty7beth Says:

Sep 26, 2011 - He's not saying we work for salvation. He preaches salvation through faith and grace alone. He's talking about the work we do as we grow in Christ to become more like Jesus. Paul speaks clearly on this.God continues to work with and in us - we do strive to be more like Jesus. Nothing to do with salvation.

promisedgrace Says:

Sep 27, 2011 - The bible doesn't say to "strive" to be more like Jesus...it says "strive to enter His rest" (Heb 4:11). If we say that we receive salvation by grace through faith which I completely agree with then how I live my life is the same, no different. "Just as you received Him so walk in Him" (Col 2:6). Don't be foolish to think that it is any different...that any of our striving can make us like Jesus (Gal 3:1-3) I have been united with Him and we are one spirit (1Cor 6:17). grace to u

promisedgrace Says:

Sep 27, 2011 - Now that is a beautifully logical question. And the answer is as logical as the question. When we come to Christ and believe Him we become a new creation. "Being Sanctified" is the process that we begin to put on all that is our inheritance and live in the reality of who He has already made us to be. We go about being sanctified so that we walk in truth and the abundance of His life in us becomes our tangible experience -if not we walk in a lie that steals His life in us Jn 10:10

promisedgrace Says:

Sep 27, 2011 - @Virgilt Now that is a beautifully logical question. And the answer is as logical as the question. When we come to Christ and believe Him we become a new creation. "Being Sanctified" is the process that we begin to put on all that is our inheritance and live in the reality of who He has already made us to be. We go about being sanctified so that we walk in truth and the abundance of His life in us becomes our tangible experience -if not we walk in a lie that steals His life in us Jn 10:10

JoelRA22 Says:

Dec 10, 2011 - We are saved through grace but that grace makes us want to and do good works. Grace isn't an excuse to do nothing.

Lifescythe Says:

Jan 31, 2012 - I do not believe in perfection in this life but I have one question.We are told that Christ has "made us free from sin." How can we be free from sin if we will never be free from it completely?

Jerkwad152 Says:

Feb 11, 2012 - It doesn't mean that we're perfect, sinless and good, at least not on our own merits. It means that Christ has paid the penalty for our sins, and will remember them no more when we come to meet Him in Heaven.

mondragonfco Says:

Mar 1, 2012 - Mark, If you are saying that we can't be perfect in this life. Then what are we going to do with Matt 5:48 where Jesus says: "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." He didn't say try to be perfect, or be perfect if you can. this is a command. what are you going to do with this verse.

mondragonfco Says:

Mar 1, 2012 - about Romans 7 Paul is clearly not talking about him self in that chapter, but he is using this metafor to explain the life of a christian who is walking with Christ. We can know that he is not talking about him self because when he wrote Romans he had already wrote Galatians and in Galatians 2:20 he says "My old self has been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself

mondragonfco Says:

Mar 1, 2012 - But let's say he was talking about him self. don't just stay in chapter 7, continue to chapter 8 and in chapter 8 you see the answer to his problem of trying to do the right thing but not having success. here is what Chapter 8 says read very careful:1 So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus.

mondragonfco Says:

Mar 1, 2012 - 2 And because you belong to him, the power[a] of the life-giving Spirit has freed you[b] from the power of sin that leads to death. 3 The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature.[c] So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin's control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins.

mondragonfco Says:

Mar 1, 2012 - 4 He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit.

mondragonfco Says:

Mar 1, 2012 - 6 So letting your sinful nature control your mind leads to death. But letting the Spirit control your mind leads to life and peace. 7 For the sinful nature is always hostile to God. It never did obey God's laws, and it never will. 8 That's why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please God. Now this Stament is very powerful, "Those who are still under the control of the sinful nature can never please God" Tell me what this means to you?

mondragonfco Says:

Mar 1, 2012 - 9 But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you.the same week sinful Paul who you are talking about, who wrote Chapter 7 also wrote chapter 8 and He is saying here that we have to be controlled by the Spirit, he is not talking about the future he is talking about the present. I also love what he says in verse 3 that Jesus did what the law couldn't do, What he is saying is that if you settled to say i'm always--

mondragonfco Says:

Mar 1, 2012 - going to be a sinner, I'm not perfect then you are living in the Old Testament; take a look at Hebrews 10 1 The old system under the law of Moses was only a shadow, a dim preview of the good things to come, not the good things themselves. The sacrifices under that system were repeated again and again, year after year, but they were never able to provide perfect cleansing for those who came to worship.

mondragonfco Says:

Mar 1, 2012 - 2 If they could have provided perfect cleansing, the sacrifices would have stopped, for the worshipers would have been purified once for all time, and their feelings of guilt would have disappeared. 12 But our High Priest (TALKING ABOUT JESUS)

mondragonfco Says:

Mar 1, 2012 - offered himself to God as a single sacrifice for sins, good for all time. Then he sat down in the place of honor at God's right hand. 13 There he waits until his enemies are humbled and made a footstool under his feet. 14 For by that one offering he forever made perfect those who are being made holy.