Elliott Carter- Night Fantasies (2/2)

jameswiman Says:

Dec 19, 2008 - Perhaps you can offer some insight:I've thought about working on this piece and in looking over the score it strikes me that Carter's rhythmic complexities are unique. I've never encountered his means of rhythmic notation and I'm just curious--since you quite clearly know more about this music than I--where does one start, or, how does one approach these complexities?

minirausch Says:

Mar 16, 2009 - unsolicited comment from the peanut gallery: if you haven't played this kind of music, night fantasies is not the place to start. you could look into some of his shorter pieces which use similar concepts--diversions, retrouvailles, 90+ are challenging, but without night fantasies' staggering scale. or play some ives, messiaen, stockhausen (i-iv), boulez etc. become fluent in polyrhythms, build up comprehension of rhythmic complexity. the metric modulation just takes some getting used to....

jameswiman Says:

Mar 16, 2009 - Well, I certainly understand that advice. But that's not the sort of answer I'm looking for. I've played Ives and Stockhausen and Messiaen.There's something particular about Carter's approach to working out these rhythms. I'm curious about specific ways of approaching his techniques--be they in this work or his other works. Length and scope don't worry me--only ways to cope with the problems.Your concern is heart felt though :)

minirausch Says:

Mar 16, 2009 - the issues are similar--odd asymmetric syncopations, layering of tempos/rhythms. the only real difference with carter is the more thorough use of polyrhythm/counterpoint and fluid changes of tempo, which require a strong feeling of the "big beat" and the ability to shift your groupings and subdivisions mentally at the drop of a hat. i tend to think it always comes down to subdivision. if you can play a messiaen tempo fugue and really maintain a sense of line, carter's not so far out of reach.

minirausch Says:

Mar 16, 2009 - and not that klavierstück ix is a cakewalk but it's not exactly on par with the others in terms of complexity. you wouldn't play op. 111 without ever having played a lick of beethoven (i hope), so i still think jumping into night fantasies is probably not the best plan. boulez is also good for complex counterpoint and sharpening rhythmic acuity (1st sonata, sonatine, etc notations not so much). i don't plan to take on night fantasies for a few years at least, but i hope to work my way up to it.

jameswiman Says:

Mar 16, 2009 - You're definatly right (about working up to it). I've worked on other Stockhausen beside's what's on my channel, just for the record.I'm just looking for a lager 20th cen. work to sink my teeth into in the coming months.Again, your advice is appreciated.

majav15mg Says:

Aug 6, 2010 - Holy shietnitzismz

WrestlingHeretic Says:

Oct 22, 2011 - Read David Schiff's book "The Music of Elliott Carter."