Free Market Fantasies by Noam Chomsky 1/5

OppressedAnarchist Says:

Nov 22, 2011 - @queenofshebalala We also have more poverty than we have ever had ....

OppressedAnarchist Says:

Nov 22, 2011 - @FletchforFreedom Charity doesn't get to the root of the problems, it simply masks them. A society that sweeps the disabled under the rug and simply throws money at them is a ridiculous society. Capitalism is profit before people. Free Market capitalism does not work. It is time to start looking for solutions beyond economic policies.. People before Profit Please tell me what is the "Real World" You sound like the product of institutions like media and standardized education

FletchforFreedom Says:

Nov 23, 2011 - @queenofshebalala Who said anything about "begging"?. In a socialist, planned economy (as has been proven both by economics and history), resource allocation is a disaster and the entire population is condemned to greater poverty and far fewer resources are available. This means that not only do more people require charity but there are fewer resources available to provide it.

FletchforFreedom Says:

Nov 23, 2011 - @OppressedAnarchist Since, of course, society doesn't sweep anything under the rug, what do you suggest is the "root of the prblem". If the root of the problem is providing the resources to those who are most in need, then free market capitalism ahs already proven to be vastly superior than socialism in that regard. if the "problem" is that humans are self-interested beings, then the "problem" is human nature that cannot be changed and thus systems requiring that change are doomed to fail.

FletchforFreedom Says:

Nov 23, 2011 - @OppressedAnarchist That statement si objectively false. Poverty rates have been much higher in the past. of course, were it not for the socialistic interventions in the economy that caused the meltdown, we wouldn't have that problem either.

queenofshebalala Says:

Nov 23, 2011 - @FletchforFreedom @FletchforFreedom ..What economy are you talking about? As far as I am aware no country in the world has ever had a democratically planned socialist economy. Currently, almost half the world's population live on less than $2 a day; one-fifth on less than $1. Despite a global surplus of food, 84 million people are officially classified as malnourished, as they lack the money required to feed themselves. The USA alone has a huge polarisation between wealth and poverty.

queenofshebalala Says:

Nov 23, 2011 - @FletchforFreedom.. A mere 500 multinational companies control 70% of all world trade. The US is only the leader in what is an international trend. In 2000 there were seven million people worldwide with liquid assets of more than $1 million - an increase of 18% in one year alone. In Britain the average income of a chief executive of a FTSE 100 company is a huge £643,000 a year. Capitalism is increasing poverty for most people and is incapable of taking society forward.

FletchforFreedom Says:

Nov 23, 2011 - @queenofshebalala That there is no perfect "democratically planned socialist economy" may well be true (depending upon where you set the bar for meeting that threshold) in much the same way that there are no orange-painted flying pigs (which are likewise impossible). But we do have examples of pigs and know that they can't do calculus just as we have examples of socialism and know that planned economies are not viable.

FletchforFreedom Says:

Nov 23, 2011 - @queenofshebalala Your figures are bogus. Roughly 850 million people (out of 7 billion) live in poverty -- that's a worldwide poverty rate of only 13% - HALVED in the last 40 years and it continues to fall (except, primarily, in countries where governments and socialistic policies have made escaping poverty all the more difficult), all according to official statistics (not biased websites). The "wealth gap" is a red herring based on nothing but envy (where are the wealthiest "poor" on earth).

FletchforFreedom Says:

Nov 23, 2011 - @queenofshebalala No one "controls" trade.  Businesses REMIAN in business by providing the goods and services that people desire to give themselves a better life. As for those with more than $1 million -- WHO CARES?!?! The simple fact is that NO ONE is poorer because they are wealthy and, in most cases, they GOT wealthy by providing goods and services (and jobs) that have made others better off. Capitalism has done more to reduce poverty than any other system. Do some research!

queenofshebalala Says:

Nov 24, 2011 - @FletchforFreedom..I am not going to provide you with even more statistics about the widening gap between mega rich and poor. You can find them easily enough anyway. Whatever happened to that 'trickle down' effect anyway? Oh yeah, I think it got blocked up with credit. One of the first books I read as an adolescent was "The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists" by Robert Tressell. I really enjoyed the chapter called "The Great Money Trick". I suggest you read it - if you want to understand what I a

annoyance13 Says:

Dec 30, 2011 - @FletchforFreedom This is kindergarden economics. These ideas have no application in the real world. And the reason is simple. Businesses have no interest in providing goods or services. They want to maximize profit. This eventually entails looting the public.

FletchforFreedom Says:

Jan 3, 2012 - @annoyance13 Well, you are certainly correct that Chomsky is providing "kindergarten economics" with "no application in the real world". Of course, IN that real world, businesses have a HUGE interest in providing goods and services because that is precisely HOW they maximize profit and why the notion that corporations, for the most part (state intervention in the form of bailouts being a state-caused exception) virtually NEVER "loot the public".Take the silly blinders off.

1019079 Says:

Jan 8, 2012 - @FletchforFreedom So you don't acknowledge the 2008 recession as capitalism gone wrong?

FletchforFreedom Says:

Jan 8, 2012 - @1019079 Since the 2008 recession was the result of monetary manipulation by the Federal Reserve (the government's central bank) and had nothing whatsoever to do with capitalism, I can't possibly "acknowledge" any such thing. The premise is absurd on its face.

1019079 Says:

Jan 9, 2012 - @FletchforFreedom Not really. Still private companies taking our money, so its still capitalism.

FletchforFreedom Says:

Jan 9, 2012 - @1019079 Not really. Private companies didn't CAUSE the crisis and the decision of government to take our money and pay handouts to cover up their own incomepetnce (the banks) or as a sop to their union supporters (the auto companies) was, again, an entirely state decision and hasn't anything whatsoebver to do with capitalism.

FletchforFreedom Says:

Jan 9, 2012 - @1019079 Actually, by definition, capitalism has nothing to do with anyone "taking your money". The only way anyone can get your money under capitalism is via voluntary exchange for something you desire more than the money itself. The corporatism of which you speak (a form of socialism - not capitalism) is one of the problems associated with state power and its ability to manipulate the system. What has that to do with the free market (the definition of capitalism)?

1019079 Says:

Jan 9, 2012 - @FletchforFreedom Its a free enterprise system. I'd also like to point out how everybody tries to use the federal reserve as some sort of scapegoat. There are thousands of banks in this country. So are you advocating dissolving the nation state system?

FletchforFreedom Says:

Jan 9, 2012 - @1019079 The free enterprise system failed. That there are thoudands of banks in the country is irrelevant. Only the central bank (the Federal Reserve) is a governmnet monopoly that can manipulate the money supply. It's not scapegoating; it's recognizing economic reality.My opinion of the abolition of the nation state has not come up. As private property and free trade preceed it by more than 20,000 years, capitalism can do just fine without it.

FletchforFreedom Says:

Jan 9, 2012 - @1019079 The free enterprise system failed. That there are thoudands of banks in the country is irrelevant. Only the central bank (the Federal Reserve) is a governmnet monopoly that can manipulate the money supply. It's not scapegoating; it's recognizing economic reality.My opinion of the abolition of the nation state has not come up. As private property and free trade preceed it by more than 20,000 years, capitalism can do just fine without it.

irishjuwan Says:

Jan 10, 2012 - @annoyance13 and why do these ideas have no application in the real world? thats the point..... rape and pillage, thats our origin..... only way we know how to "live".... and i use that term loosely..... its an ideological arguement

AccumulatedKnowledge Says:

Jan 24, 2012 - It doesn't seem like he really is criticizing the free market here, rather the aspect behind the current corporatist system, where the producers are bailed out for their mistakes. Somehow, its beyond Chomsky in realizing that this is the reason these same people behave recklessly.

leahcim3360 Says:

Jan 31, 2012 - Private companies relate to "our money being taken to bail them out" precisely by manipulating the electoral political & legislative systems to have LAWS that protect their interests rather than the public's interest holding sway.That the state bails out Corporate Power isn't an "accident", but rather a result of design & investment...just like is happening now in the current Presidential campaign.Two people will run, both having been thoroughly vetted by the Owner Class..