Sympathy for the Minarchist...

Fetchdafish Says:

Mar 17, 2010 - Examples? How about the fact that government on the whole never ever shrinks? Government has no incentive to shrink, no matter how many people want it. Why would the mafia downsize unless it had choice? The mafia's power grows out of the barrel of gun, not popular support. The state is simply a form of organized crime that has endeavored to erect a guise of legitimacy, in order to make its job easier. It never has been and cannot be restrained, only temporarily crippled by revolt or war.

emspeed1 Says:

Mar 18, 2010 - @Fetchdafish I assumed you actually were talking about the mafia, Mia culpa. If you agree that It never has been and cannot be restrained., and you should, you wrote it, then you should jump on with whomever is going to get you the most goods. That is where we find ourselves today, and though people of true principle would not do so, there is not many of them left. So why bother, for every one that you can inform, six will remain forever ignorant.

emspeed1 Says:

Mar 18, 2010 - (2a) It is even easier to convince those that think we need less governance to think we need none than to convince those sucking at the teat of the possibilities of Anarchy. Look, would I prefer to live in an Anarcho-Capitalist society over a Minarchist one? Yes. Would I prefer to live in a Minarchist society over the one I currently enjoy? Hell yes. Do I think the first is achievable before achieving the second? Not a chance in hell. Baby steps amigo, baby steps.

emspeed1 Says:

Mar 18, 2010 - (1a)My insanity has never been in question. As I have said Anarchy, in any form, is almost certainly not coming. The only ways I can see it ever being achieved is at the violent conclusion of the state (very unlikely), or by first shrinking government until it falls away unneeded (slightly less unlikely). It is far simpler to get people on board with the idea that they need much less governance than to convince them they need none.

emspeed1 Says:

Mar 18, 2010 - If you agree that most Anarchists come from the ranks of Minarchists, and say that most Minarchists never become Anarchists, then logically you should conclude that Anarchy has zero chance of ever happening. If that is the case, shouldnt you reconsider Minarchism? I am playing devils advocate here. But, if you acknowledge the state as permanent then shouldnt minimizing it be your next step? I think it was Bismark who said Politics is the art of the possible. Not that I like that clown.

Fetchdafish Says:

Mar 18, 2010 - @emspeed1 And if you want to spend your time doing that fine. Some of the people you convince will go on to make the logical conclusion that no governance is required. Most however will go-on to become even more devout statists, confident in the notion that the state can become their servant. The government will not shrink because of political action because it is at heart a criminal organization that cannot be held to any moral standard.

Fetchdafish Says:

Mar 18, 2010 - @emspeed1 Except that baby step cannot be taken. If politics worked we wouldn't NEED anarchy. If the government could be convinced to shrink of its own accord then it could also be convinced to serve the few legitimate ends that are theoretically possible to it. The whole premise of anarchy is that politics doesn't work! Period. The way we will achieve anarchy is by living it right now; setting an example to our friends and our children just how unnecessary the state is.

Fetchdafish Says:

Mar 18, 2010 - @emspeed1 Here is how we will achieve anarchy. It will more than likely take a few hundred if not a few thousand years, based on how disinterested most people are in the truth, and in fact how much it frightens them. But all states fail. It is in their nature to fail because of their inherent inefficiencies. A smart parasite never takes so much life out of its host that it kills it, but the state is rarely a smart parasite, because the people who run it rarely in act perfect concert.

Fetchdafish Says:

Mar 18, 2010 - Ultimately the mindset of politicians is "every man for himself", meaning government inevitably grows so large it cannot be sustained and that state fails. The reason failed states are continuously replaced is because the statist idea has the moral approval of most people. The state is force, but many, many people voluntarily serve and sacrifice to the state, and don't allow themselves to recognize the violence at work. If this were stop completely enough, the next state wouldn't be born.

Fetchdafish Says:

Mar 18, 2010 - This will only happen by [atiently spreading an absolutely anti-authoritarian mindset. The only way we stand a chance to do so is by setting an example, because most people just don't give a damn about reason or evidence. We have to face the fact that there will be no victory in our lifetime and simply do the best we can to advance the cause of freedom by really making the most out of what freedom our masters allow us.

emspeed1 Says:

Mar 18, 2010 - @FetchdafishI'm sorry you think it may take generations, or even millenia. During that time subsequent generations will become less informed and more complacent and accepting of their "Bread and Circuses", and Government will grow much stronger. You know, the way I'm looking at it your argument only strengthens the state. "Do nothing, in the distant future it will fall apart all by itself." I wish you good luck with all that is non-coercive towards others.

Fetchdafish Says:

Mar 18, 2010 - @emspeed1 Okay, I'm not even going to look at your other replies after this. You keep claiming my advice is to do nothing, which isn't true. You don't seem interested in intellectual honesty. Spreading the truth and setting an example is not doing nothing, it is ALL WE CAN DO. From an anarchist perspective the state is a criminal organization, no matter what intentions it individual members or advocates may possess. On top of that, modern states are very strong and cannot be over-throne.

Fetchdafish Says:

Mar 18, 2010 - But really, you're whole problem here is that you're blowing the impact of this video and Stef's anti-minarchist position out of proportion. Of COURSE it's great that minarchist ideas are spreading, because down the road that means more anarchists, but that doesn't mean anarchy aren't a world different and should work together, except to extol the virtues of liberty. Further more, this video will not scare anyone from becoming a minarchist unless they're already an anarchist.

emspeed1 Says:

Mar 19, 2010 - (3b) A piece of friendly advice; Youve continually lectured at me as if Ive no clue, then claim me to be intellectually dishonest, which makes you seem like a huge dogmatist, might want to watch that in the future when youre out spreading the word. People do not like being preached at.

emspeed1 Says:

Mar 19, 2010 - (2b)Openly attacking another ideology that is kindred (at least in relative terms) to your own when there are so many ideologies that are so much worse just seems stupid. Ive never said they should actively work together only that attacking one another is counterproductive. If Anarchy and Minarchism are worlds apart, then Statism must be another solar system because the ranks of anarchists are not filled with (big S) ex-Statists, it is filled with (small s) ex-minarchists.

emspeed1 Says:

Mar 19, 2010 - @Fetchdafish (1b)"Spreading the truth and setting an example is not doing nothing, it is ALL WE CAN DO." Then the very next post "Of COURSE it's great that minarchist ideas are spreading, because down the road that means more anarchists..." Kind of contradictory but at least you are acknowledging that there is more than one path that can be taken, great. That has been my position all along. (cont.)

Fetchdafish Says:

Mar 19, 2010 - There's no contradiction. It's the same path. Spreading the truth. Inasmuch as both approaches believe less government is better they are concurrent, and should collaborate as much as possible. But inasmuch as they differ they should make their disagreements known, because they are fundamental disagreements. I'm sorry I've gotten my feathers ruffled, that's my fault and my problem, but I seriously, I honestly do not believe this video or any other reasoned critique of minarchism is dangerous.

Fetchdafish Says:

Mar 19, 2010 - It isn't going to make minarchists less effective at spreading minarchism. No Statist is going to watch this video and decide to steer clear of minarchists. If it does offend minarchists, it's not going to make them any less eager to spread minarchism, unless of course it does its job and fills them with some nice introspective doubt. There really doesn't seem to be anything to worry about. Though honestly I would have liked if Stef took a little more time to write a better song.

nomoreyou1212 Says:

May 1, 2010 - heck yes!!

ThndersRage Says:

May 25, 2010 - @peepnklown Agree.At this point I think it would be highly beneficial to both. As it stands now both are losing to statists. It was slow at first but these days things are ramping up. If something does not happen and soon, we will see emspeed1's '1984' in our time.

metal87power Says:

Jun 22, 2010 - Did Ron Paul really was with this Magneto costume? :D When? How? Why?

mongoose704 Says:

Jun 25, 2010 - If government and leadership is a myth then why has it existed throught out all documented human history and throughout nature itself????Oh...history is a lie. Just deny the truth.Leaders and government are inevitable. You'd think that one example of a leaderless, governmentless society exists or has ever existed. Nope, leaders always came about in every so called anarchist society whether elected, selected or de-facto. Best to just minimize government power as best we can.

MrTallSouth Says:

Sep 28, 2010 - We are playing your game because you, right now, have no chance of winning, while we do, however small.Only once a state of minarchy has been achieved (pun unintended), will anarchy have a chance. Only THEN will we be playing against each other, will we be your actual enemies.Then we will see who is right.nice song.

lordrazi111693 Says:

Oct 5, 2010 - so what is minachism? just a government existing.sorry i can't understand what he voice said. odd accent

famemolto Says:

Jan 10, 2011 - I'm not sure what your goal is, but it cannot be persuasion.The people you are most likely to persuade to anarchism are those who already have a healthy disgust for big government. So why go out of your way to insult minarchists, to give them the devil voice in your song? You instantly shut down their interest in your arguments. You ought to do a song that explain what will replace law courts and the military. Save your rancor for those you can never persuade.