Elliott Carter- Night Fantasies (1/2)

John11inch Says:

Feb 17, 2010 - Just listening to more of it is often really helpful. Getting on some forums or facebook groups or reading books/essays is also good.

BlueCougar Says:

May 28, 2010 - @nevertheless123 In the words of the composer: one: "...continuously changing moods, suggesting the fleeting thoughts and feelings that pass through the mind during a period of wakefulness at night." two: there are two slow pulses throughout the piece, one every 5 1/2 seconds and one every seven seconds. They only coincide in measure 3 and at the very last notes of the piece. These form the rhythmic "skeleton" of the piece. You may google "Carter Night fantasies numbers", and find a useful pdf.

gramirez72 Says:

Oct 26, 2010 - Elliott Carter is one of my favorite composers. Absolutely love this piece! I had the pleasure and rare opportunity of seeing Ursula Oppens perform this at a Piano Spheres concert in Los Angeles in 2008 in honor of Carter's 100th birthday. It was fantastic!

Ear4Beauty Says:

Nov 8, 2010 - @Chromometron Music like this is not necessarily for extra intelligent people. It may however, be for people who have heard a great deal of music and enjoy something new, even radically new.

blueyedboy84 Says:

Dec 30, 2010 - I am a trained composer .I really think Carter is way overrated. Forget the technical difficulties-I do not think it is very good piano music.Serial music has always gained great respectablility in universities but much is empty musically. This sort of music suppressed better American composers who wrote more tonal music eg Piston( symphony 2) or David Diamond ( eg symphony 3/string quartet 3).Tuur's 1985 sonata is better music- watch:?v=BgeYQQyjmII&playnext=1&list=PL2591F2A90FAB40A4&index=17

John11inch Says:

Dec 30, 2010 - Lol.What conservatory trained you?

blueyedboy84 Says:

Dec 31, 2010 - @John11inch I went to Royal College London. I am not at all against using 'serial' or atonal music itself but genuinely think that some composers do hide behind the complex sound of it (which can be 'academically' impressive when studying the score!) leaving the harsh reality that the music itself is not good as music! It was the done thing at college to only study serial/complex composers eg Boulez,Henze and anyone tonal was seen as old hat. I think this almost fascist view is changing.

John11inch Says:

Dec 31, 2010 - Sure. Just like a lot of the composers of the ilk you mentioned hide behind a Post-Modern, anti-intellectual dogma, which is bad enough, and then even more pretend it's not simply a delusive form of commercialism. Anyway, if you think Elliott Carter is a composer hiding behind academia, then you really have quite a bit to learn (and that's putting it really nicely), not to mention the fact that almost none of Carter's output is "Serial", as most would use the term.

John11inch Says:

Dec 31, 2010 - Elliott Carter was often opposed to forms and trends that you're actually talking about; there is nothing especially esoteric about Carter's work. In fact, that's a defining quality of his output. I know it's a fairly standard comment in this situation, but in this case it's certainly true: you just don't get it. Talking about "complex" composers (what an ignorant term) and idolizing David Diamond makes that clear enough. You should familiarize yourself with Carter, honestly.

jdbrown371 Says:

Mar 15, 2011 - All I know is I enjoy this music equally as much as Beethoven, Schumann and all the rest. I don't really care whether other people like it or if it is serial or not.  After listening to this piece quite a bit I can say unreservedly that Carter intended every note. Aimard has a wonderful way with the piano and he is feeling every phrase and every note.

Mrilovekay Says:

Mar 31, 2011 - I have been listening to Elliott Carters Concerto for Piano and Orchestra 1964-5for about three weeks now. I do not know why this music resonates so deeply in me. Some of the phrases seem to reach the wildest Jazz statements emotionally for me I have ever heard. Yet this music is not jazz. I would be interested in others comments on the neurological tuning loving this music requires. jghiron@mac.com

theNokes Says:

Apr 26, 2011 - @blueyedboy84 Carter's Enovation is in his developments of time, and how time functions within the larger scheme of structure. Strangely particularly in his earlier string quartets, time functions as a sort of tonality, modulating to close related pulse divisions to further distanced pulse divisions before returning back to the tonic time at the end.

theNokes Says:

Apr 26, 2011 - @blueyedboy84 Carter's Enovation is in his developments of time, and how time functions within the larger scheme of structure. Strangely particularly in his earlier string quartets, time functions as a sort of tonality, modulating to close related pulse divisions to further distanced pulse divisions before returning back to the tonic time at the end.

theNokes Says:

Apr 26, 2011 - @blueyedboy84 Carter's primary development was in the structure of time. Particularly in his early string quartets time manifests itself as having almost tonal qualities. Works transition to closely related time divisions, and eventually to the farther related time divisions before returning to the original tonic pulse. Carter has had the advantage of being alive long enough to evolve. His music up until his 40's was tonal and primarily in the Americanism style.

Sarmad939 Says:

May 7, 2011 - Hello. I'm afraid being a trained composer (which could mean to Bachelor's level) is simply not enough to qualify you to make a statement such as you make here. In fact, I recently attended a lecture by a senior academic who is a professor at a British university. His compositions were neo-tonal pap - at the very opposite end of the spectrum to Carter. And to claim that Piston is better than Carter would be amusing if it weren't apparent that you are being serious.

muslit Says:

May 27, 2011 - there are plenty of composers who do not like carter's music. and, who, by the way, determines what is good and what isn't in classical music? carter's music has its champions, just like the music of xenakis, cage, boulez, lutoslawski, ligeti, etc. but at present, none of these composers are really well-known to the general public, and probably never will be. there's is a style of modernism that doesn't appeal to many. but there will always be those who enjoy it.

muslit Says:

May 27, 2011 - @jdbrown371 unfortunately, it doesn't 'seem' like carter intended every note. at least lovingly so.

muslit Says:

May 27, 2011 - i've gone to a number of concerts in the past 5 years devoted to carter's music in new york city, including two where he attended. it was my impression that many people in the audience were there because carter's music was known to be difficult and demanding, not because they necessarily liked it. some even brought scores. but a score wouldn't shed much light on whether a performance was accurate or not, in my opinion,because most performances of his music are approximate in terms of rhythm.

jdbrown371 Says:

May 28, 2011 - @muslit It's simply for lack of familiarity. You must listen to the music enough that every note is recognized like stones and little landmarks on a familiar trail. No one ever listens carefully unless they really like the music or are at least curious. Night Fantasies demands much from the listener and will never yield its secrets to the casual listener. Unless you commit to the music somehow, it will resist you.

gfmcc Says:

Jul 16, 2011 - Why create music? Is it primarily an emotional or intellectual urge that prompts a composer? Do you feel an emotional response to this music, and if so what is it? Since emotion is subjective then perhaps it has no value in objective criticism?Regarding "lack of familiarity" mentioned below: apparently rats can learn to discriminate between specific genres of music by repeated exposure to it - Google this: "rats schoenberg mozart texas tech"

WrestlingHeretic Says:

Oct 22, 2011 - Many cognitive scientists who are studying how people process music are firmly convinced that atonal music is invalid. I got into an argument with one this summer. But you have to have syntax! Expectations! For the brain to process music! Yeah, dude, whatevs. Cognitive science is in its infancy and is only just beginning to map the parts of the brain that expect a leading tone to resolve upward. Just because it's 200 years behind understanding atonal music doesn't mean it's invalid.

WrestlingHeretic Says:

Oct 22, 2011 - @Sarmad939 Does anyone besides me see Piston vs. Carter as a false dichotomy? It's possible to appreciate both for different reasons.

cincijazzdrummer Says:

Dec 7, 2011 - @blueyedboy84 I'm an aspiring composer going to a music school and i got to say i agree with you. I don't mind some of the music, but years has passed and im tired of it still being shoved down our throats like its some magical music. If you like this kind of music great but now it feels like people write it for the sake of being out there. and its no longer avant garde when every one does it! its just plain boring and Lazy

miker2001 Says:

Dec 22, 2011 - @blueyedboy84 Some of his music might be overrated, but some of it is pure genius.

Razsteroid Says:

Feb 6, 2012 - A lot of the conversation happening here is really silly. Great music, currently eating chili and listening to it.